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This is a discussion that Ken Lowry kindly organized on his YouTube channel and podcast, Climbing Mt. Sophia. The panel includes me, John Vervaeke (@johnvervaeke) and DC Schindler. We talk about the ontology of artificial intelligence from different perspectives: the scientific, philosophical, and spiritual or theological perspectives. Follow the Climbing Mt. Sophia channel: https://www.youtube.com/@climbingmt.sophia John Vervaeke’s video essay that prompted this discussion: John Vervaeke - AI: The Coming Thresholds and The Path We Must Take | Internationally Acclaimed Cognitive Scientist: https://youtu.be/A-_RdKiDbz4?si=K3SUnyrA1ywedRzf Timestamps: 00:00 - Coming up next 00:22 - Intro music 00:47 - Introduction 02:29 - John: Weak AI and Strong AI 05:46 - Cognition and computation 07:00 - Hobbes and Descartes 09:04 - The scientific argument 12:01 - The philosophical argument: Rationality 13:21 - The spiritual argument 15:10 - Thresholds and orienting AI 19:15 - 3 Possibilities with AI 23:07 - Jonathan 1: The economics 24:57 - Jonathan 2: AI is not our child 26:16 - Jonathan 3: Idolatry 28:32 - John's response 31:10 - A reason for hope 34:47 - Back to seeing AI as a child 36:16 - Theology will be the important science 38:32 - Can AI be wise? 42:00 - Schindler 1: Unity that transcends multiplicity and function 47:21 - Schindler 2: The Technological Spirit 51:07 - Schindler 3: The danger of us aligning ourselves to the AI 54:35 - There's no intelligence without life 01:00:24 - What is life? 01:03:18 - The persistence of being: reproduction, autopoiesis 01:08:54 - Darwin brought Plato back 01:13:12 - Symbolic structures 01:16:26 - Divination and gods 01:22:00 - Schindler and Vervaeke respond 01:27:10 - Nuclear weapons 01:29:31 - Sacrifice and our myth traditions 01:36:32 - Finding internal unity 01:49:35 - What *** are we incarnating? 01:57:17 - The meta-solution \ud83d\udcbb Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com \ud83d\udd17 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau \ud83d\udde3 Join The Symbolic World Community for discussions about symbolism: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe \ud83d\udd12 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe \ud83d\udcf1 SOCIAL MEDIA Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/TheSymbolicWorld Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/pageaujonathan Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jonathan.pageau Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson.